Colleges turned into police stations

Those who remember longer will remember the name of our interlocutor from those so different, yet similar times. At the end of the nineties, she was one of the most visible activists of the "Resistance", she fought against the repression of the Milosevic regime and for a normal, open society, and for the autonomy of universities, which was also threatened at the time. In contrast to the "optorians" who decided to make politics their sole occupation and vocation or those who devoted themselves to business - Kleut decided on an academic career after the October 5th changes. Today, she is a professor of communication at the Faculty of Philosophy in Novi Sad, she has a huge number of scientific works behind her and a proud number of students who are today important names in that honorable part of our profession.

Jelena comes to the interview wearing a T-shirt that says "Freedom for Lazar Dinić". There are few who do not know, but let us remind you. Dinić is a member of the group "Stav", one of the students of the Faculty of Philosophy who are victims of political and judicial persecution as a member of the so-called Novi Sad groups. In response to the large Belgrade rally, held on March 15, twelve activists of "Stava" and the Movement of Free Citizens, including Lazar, were declared terrorists on all regime televisions in prime time. The regime members illegally played an illegally obtained recording of their conversation. Six FF students have been in political exile for months, and Dinić initially stayed in the infamous Klisa detention center for a little more than two months, and now, for about three and a half months, he is under house arrest.

Precisely thanks to the expelled students and the detained Lazar, that is, the "Stavovci", the Novi Sad Faculty of Philosophy became, long before the Novi Sad canopy, a pioneer of student resistance to progressive arbitrariness. They led the rebellion against the criminal elections for the student parliament of this faculty, and later stood up against the persecution of witches, i.e. to protect innocent professors who were declared "Ustasha", "enemies of the people" and what not.

Kleut tells us that the Faculty of Philosophy in Novi Sad has literally been turned into a police station within the university campus. Thanks to Dean Milivoj Alanović, who with the help of a couple of colleagues ran into the faculty building and called the police to protect him from "blockade" students. For almost seven days (at the time of the conversation, that much had passed), the police force "controlled" the faculty and protected it from students. From the first day, Jelena supported the protests and demands of the students.

"The police have been at the university for days, the students have been chased out of the building. It's a creepy image and message. The police are there because of a hypothetical fear that something could happen to the dean or the faculty. If that were a valid reason for a police presence in full military gear, it could be in all state institutions. We got a police station in the heart of the campus, although the university space should be autonomous, and the presence of the police is justified, but limited in time, only when there are very clear reasons for it. Until just before "For several weeks, the police complied, they stood on the edges of the campus, they did not enter it. And now they have 'conquered' the Faculty of Philosophy with 200 members of the gendarmerie and 26 police vehicles," says Kleut.

The faculty was "blocked", students were in it as in previous months. Yet, after a few very rough days, the situation in Novi Sad calmed down a bit. Dean Alanović's intrusion fueled passions again. Why does this happen??

The management found itself between the input of the ministry on the one hand and the students on the other. It seemed that the exam deadlines are a point where agreement between the administration and students can be easily reached, since it is in everyone's interest that they take place within the stipulated deadlines. But since the beginning of the protest, the administration of the faculty avoids communicating with the students, and has an antagonistic attitude towards them. Before the vacation, as a working group of professors, we wanted to talk to the students about the exams. We also invited the dean to that meeting. However, he undermined the gathering, he sent us a message that there was no need to talk, that the exams would be held on September 1 and that was it. I think that the decision was already made to break into the university with police forces. And what is the consequence of that intrusion? The exams were not held. And the students who are the most active in the protests have received threats from the administration that they will be disciplined and expelled from the faculty. The situation therefore heated up.

So what is the meaning of this dean's police actions?

There are many economic, political and psychological reasons. There is no simple answer. The management seems to have wished for this scenario as it has felt disempowered over the past few months. Now, with the help of the police, she regained control of the building. However, they forgot that the faculty cannot function without students, and the antagonistic attitude towards them has now reached its peak. Let's not forget that some students became victims of police repression thanks to this move by the dean.

Students demand the resignation of the dean because of police violence, that is, turning the faculty into, as you say, police station. Do you think this is something that can be fulfilled?

No. When you appeal to someone to resign, you assume that it is someone who can recognize his responsibility and take a moral attitude towards it. I think that is not the case here and that the request for resignation is knocking on a closed door. The professors who support the request will initiate an official procedure for the dismissal of Alanović, but it is a path with an uncertain outcome. Namely, the composition of the Faculty Council is very problematic, not only at our faculty. It has a large share of founder representatives, that is, political representatives, and the student representatives, as we know, were elected in an almost criminal manner, without respecting any procedures. And he should make a decision on dismissal.

Is it important to the authorities that the Faculty of Philosophy in Novi Sad be subdued because of the symbolism?, as one of the pioneers of resistance to Vučić's regime?

Certainly. As a symbol, it is important not only to the authorities, but also to the citizens. Numerous socially engaged initiatives are created in it. From there, the blockade spread to other faculties in Novi Sad. The goal is to discipline this faculty in particular, because it also has a large number of free-thinking people who speak publicly, boldly expressing their views. That is why it was important that he be "liberated" in such a cruel way. This is a demonstration exercise. On the other hand, citizens also recognize this symbolism and provide great support to students.

That it is a demonstration exercise, events at the Faculty of Physical Education show. And there the dean rushed into the faculty. Police attack students and demonstrators.

It was expected that the police occupation of the Faculty of Philosophy would lead to a chain reaction, and Drid has already shown that he is ready to call the police on the students. It seems that the establishment of the Institute for Academic Action, which will obviously be a response to numerous informal networks of free and rebellious professors, delayed the invasion of DIF. Symbolically, on the day when schools start, September 1, Drid entered the university through the window in an attempt to close it. In the evening, DIF carried out a terrifying police attack on students and high school students, and the campus was literally occupied and surrounded. We got another police station, now on the edge of the campus.

Let's go back to Philosophy. 166 employees, which is the majority of teachers and associates, signed a petition condemning the action of the dean, "atmosphere of violence" and the police conquest of the institution. What is the general atmosphere among the teaching staff??

There is a relatively small, narrow circle of teachers who support the expulsion of students from colleges, police action and violence. On the other hand, there is a part of the employees (50-60 of us) who have been with the students since the beginning and who were with them even when the police raided the university. And we are a physical support for the students, ready to be a kind of buffer zone between them and the police squads. There are also a large number of teachers who are not ready to stand in front of the cordon, but it is clear to them that there are boundaries that must not be crossed. They are not teachers who will fully support every student move or request, but they are against violence against them, threats of disciplinary measures, police on the college. They will support students in such moments and sign petitions of this type. There is also that silent group, in some faculties and the silent majority, who will not be very happy to pass the police cordon and enter the faculty. But if it's for some pay, they'll do it. That is the saddest part of the story. You have university professors who are willing to listen to what is happening not far away but in their own house. Those who are silent about repression, are silent about the fact that police violence is applied to students, that their colleagues are arrested for no reason...

How much this atmosphere has changed since the beginning of the protest until today? Is the resignation more or less?

I think the percentage of teaching staff who support students decreased the moment the state cracked down on higher education, that is, when supporting students began to mean reduced earnings. It was a move by the government that divided the collectives. By April, when the decree came into effect and salaries were significantly reduced, the number of colleagues who came to the faculty, helped students, signed their support at all times - began to decrease. Many take a calculating position and wonder out loud - should we be the ones who will carry the rebellion on their shoulders while others, who also support students and believe that we need a rule of law - carelessly drink coffee in cafes. They believe that a semblance of normality should be maintained at the faculties so that our wages are paid regularly.

This atmosphere was favored, I must say, by the fact that the students were in a kind of limbo for a long time. For a long time, we did not know what their next move would be, what after rejecting the idea of ​​a transitional government. It was not clear to people - if they are already sacrificing, what are they sacrificing for.

It seems to me that despite these not very encouraging words, you are still an optimist?

I am. First of all, because of the weaving that has been woven all these months between people from the same, similar, but also completely different professional and life spheres. Between us and our students, between citizens gathered in congregations, between higher education and educational workers, between students and high school students, between professors from medical faculties and health workers... That weave is getting thicker the greater the repression. It is dispersed and decentralized. I am one of the teachers who, when we meet for the first time, ask students where they are from. It doesn't mean much to me, just for the sake of order. But now it turned out to be important. It turned out to be important that we have students from Srbobran, Šid, and many other places in Vojvodina. They organize their communities there, so they invite us to visit them. That network will be the springboard for everything that follows us.

Do those people who are opportunistic understand how disastrous this government is for the state and society? Will it still stop? "ovum" side?

It depends on the overall atmosphere. At the beginning of the blockades, we saw that a significant number of people who were close to the regime or who profited from it - changed sides. They felt that the pendulum was shifting and it was time to abandon the sinking ship. Those people will still make timely decisions, they will be on the winning side. Therefore, they will make decisions based on what their intimate social-statistical agency tells them - where the river is going. I believe, however, that some of them really think that the students' request for extraordinary elections should be fulfilled. And that, when they go to the polls, when they are left to their own devices - they will still side with the students.

And as for the students, What is the atmosphere like there?? Are there internal conflicts that we're not seeing, or is the thing still pretty coherent?

Students have a lot of common denominators, from the demand for early elections, to attitudes towards online classes, to exams. Within the plenum, both "minor" and "major" issues are resolved, tactical and strategic decisions are made. The public learns only what is announced, i.e. the decisions made, but plenums are still an important and dynamic place for exchanging opinions and preventing internal conflicts.

Therefore, the plenum system still works well?

Absolutely. Still, this system is effective despite the fact that it sometimes takes a lot of time. When it comes to "major" issues, now students are troubled by the relationship of trust with other social actors. Through the forums, they try to respond to new challenges. But forums are also important when it comes to local matters, when it comes to decisions concerning individual faculties. They talk, they hear each other. Let's say, they had a big dilemma whether they should take the exams. Some were against, others - for. However, in the end, the argument was accepted that some students really need the exams, they are important for existential reasons, that some do not have the luxury of falling into self-financing or being left without a place in a student dormitory.

And how, according to your information, plenums work when it comes to assembly "student lists", that is, the election list that will be supported by the student movement in the next parliamentary elections?

They are very engaged in this matter. They set criteria that imply not only a departure from the government but also from the opposition. They fear that opposition officials could reduce their chances in the elections. They choose people who can present parliamentary activities, but who also represent important social symbols. I understand that they are calculating when the list will be publicized. In any case, all this will someday be studied in textbooks of political science literature - how plenum structures diffusely, through many faculties and universities, form an electoral list through iterative processes: elections, checks, vetting...

It is understandable that students move away from opposition parties because of the social atmosphere, which is at least partially created by the regime. Forwards, Isn't it too much of a luxury to give up this part of society so easily?? Politics is also a set of technical knowledge, in the end.

photo: duško medic

The opposition should not be viewed as a whole, not all parties are the same. And we who have much more experience than students are often confused, we don't know who plays what role and who could be a regime pawn in the future. In this sense, the students' logic is clear to me: they don't want to choose between different oppositional options, because that is an introduction to various kinds of discord. In addition, the connection with the opposition parties imposes on them a set of ideological issues, from which they try to distance themselves. They don't quite succeed, but they try.

I think it would be important for them to establish contact, first of all, with the civil sector, all those people who have accumulated knowledge about the regime's election shenanigans and the role of institutions in the election process. They want to keep the opposition at a safe distance, but they should keep in mind that there are people there who also know a lot about electoral processes and problems. It is good that there is a part of the political parties who said that they will support the students until the end and who offered them their infrastructure. It is an important gesture, which relaxes relations on this side.

I can't help but ask you about Novi Sad. He turned out to be the most tenacious center of resistance. Is it just because the tragedy that sparked the civil uprising happened in this city?? Or are there other reasons??

Of course, the fact that the tragedy happened here plays an important role. But there are some other things that have symbolic weight. At the time of the accident, the country's prime minister was from Novi Sad, the chief prosecutor is our fellow citizen. In addition, the tragedy happened at the Railway Station, the point of contact between Novi Sad and other places. All those symbols are important for Novi Sad and its citizens, regardless of how this story unfolds. In the last nine months, the pain of the people of Novi Sad has transformed into anger. And anger brings people to the streets, gives them the strength to risk everything in this fight.

On the other hand, Novi Sad is also very important for the regime. It is a stronghold of crime, which they will not give up at any price, and that is where the repressive and cruel measures that they take here come from, much more than in other places. People know this, they know how important the fight for their city is in both political and economic terms, and also in a symbolic sense.

I am referring to the now more than evident attempts by the authorities to abolish or stifle the independent media gathered in the United group.

Vučić is obviously trying to plug all the holes. He intimidates students and citizens with repression, silences professors with salary delays, suppresses rebellion in high schools by changing principals and firing teachers... On the other hand, he reduces the margins of retail chains, promises favorable loans, increases pensions... The media has always been most important to him, and it is clear that they are gathered in this group - a bone in his throat. It is clear to him that for a large number of citizens, they are the most important channel of information, regardless of the existence of social networks. In the next elections, he will be bothered by the agility of these media and their journalists. Vučić's rule over the media is based on corruption and naked political dictation. What we are witnessing now looks more like more advanced methods of abolishing media freedoms. Conglomerates realize their interests by politically trading the media they own. What we heard in the "intercepted conversation" between Miller and Lučić is obviously only the tip of the iceberg. Apparently, the government is determined to cut down these media at any cost.

Some say that depending on the outcome in the United group, it will also depend on when Vučić will call for elections.

It wouldn't surprise me. The tactic of "decreasing the significance" that we heard about in this conversation is interesting. If someone suddenly shut down these media, it would cause a great revolt. But there are other methods. Television is an expensive thing. If the financial resources are reduced, she may find herself in a big problem. Correspondent networks may have to be discontinued, journalistic investigative work will suffer... The program will suffer greatly. So, maybe they will go for gradual suffocation.

We mentioned social networks. To some, it doesn't seem realistic., but can we expect an attack by the regime on internet freedoms as well??

If someone had told me just a month ago that the police would be sitting in my house for days, at the Faculty of Philosophy, I would have thought that it was impossible. But so far we have learned that anything is possible here. We know that Vučić copies many things from Viktor Orban. Why not start copying another authoritarian leader, Recep Erdogan, and start shutting down social networks? It is not technologically simple to do, but it is not so difficult and impossible either. If he judged that it was important for him to stay in power, he would certainly do it. If he decides to do so, the reaction of the West will certainly be fiercer than before, but I don't think that will stop him. He wants to preserve power and his corruption affairs at any cost.