Juggling 18 balls in the Government

Not even after 25 years since the formation of the Government of Zoran Đinđić, that is, since January 25, 2001, there is no clear assessment of the performance and scope of that Government, and its legacy. The most important reason for this ambivalence is undoubtedly that members and beneficiaries of Slobodan Milošević's regime have been in power for 13 years. One might think that she is already alone that circumstance does not speak well of that Government, but at the same time it must not be forgotten that Zoran Đinđić was killed 26 months after the formation of the Government, and that it was this Government that inherited the country that was thoroughly destroyed by the Milosevic regime (including the NATO attack, as the crowning glory of Milosevic's rule). Ultimately, that government meant the establishment of the first republic in the history of this country - after principalities, monarchies, communist and nationalist dictatorships - and that republic, as fragile as it was, fell before the populist authoritarian regime of Aleksandar Vučić.

"It was the first democratic government since the Second World War, because it came to power in democratic elections," says Professor Ivan Vujacic. "I think that people in our country are wrong when they say that multi-partyism came with Slobodan Milosevic in 1991. The elections he organized were so unfair, so unequal, and so much was stolen in those elections that they cannot be considered real democratic elections, nor can the system be considered a real multi-party system for that reason. We knew all this and, basically, we used politics as a revolutionary tool for a fundamental transformation towards a European-type society. It was the first democratic and, of course, the republican government because the republic is the basis of that arrangement. It was the first modern Serbian republic."

WEATHER: How close were you to the events after the 5th?. October?

IVAN VUJACIC: Allow me an anecdote. Immediately after October 5, we had the presidency of the party. There were us, I don't know exactly, but certainly 15-16. There was a discussion, but I was not carried away by the good mood. At the beginning of the meeting, Zoran sees that I'm in a bad mood, "why did you hang your nose?", he asks me. "Because everyone here cares about who will be what, not what we will do," I said. "My advice and at the same time the proposed conclusion from this meeting is that you go to Kostunica from these rates, ask for the prime minister's post and five ministries: finance, police, justice, social and privatization." I told him at the time that these people do not have time to wait for government negotiations when the next elections are held, at the end of December. "We have to have a ready team that will take the seats and start working from the first day". He immediately accepted that proposal. Of course, he would have thought of it on his own and he would have done it without me, but due to the circumstances, it was my first proposal after October 5th.

Vlada, however, it didn't look like that.

It's not. Đinđić's idea was to divide the Government into a political and an expert part, which he did. In that expert section, first of all, there should be people in charge of life issues, economy above all. However, he had to satisfy a large number of DOS members at the same time. The Democratic Party actually had only two ministries, Gordana Matković as Minister of Social Affairs and Dragan Domazet as Minister of Science. Even Aleksandar Vlahović, Minister of Privatization, was not a party member from that expert section (he joined one day after Đinđić's murder). Božidar Đelić (Minister of Finance) was not a member when he became a minister, but joined later. Of the ministries that I proposed, Đinđić did not get the Ministry of Justice (Vladan Batić), nor the Ministry of Police (Dušan Mihajlović). However, he received the sectors of finance, social issues, privatization, economic relations with foreign countries (Goran Pitić). There are also other ministries that were more expert than party colored (for example construction, trade, transport).

There were actually two governments at the time: republican, Djindjic, and the Federal Government of Zoran Žižić.

Đinđić's Government had excellent coordination with the Federal Government. Many problems that were created during Milosevic's time were at the level of the federation. This means, first of all, foreign debts, return to international organizations and international financial institutions, cancellation of various permits for foreign trade as a source of enormous corruption. All this was done by the government, which was essentially led by Miroljub Labus. In reality, he was the real Prime Minister of the Federal Government. He also dealt with other things, European integration, proposals for the reform of the federation, for closing banks because unrealistically large funds were necessary to rehabilitate them at all, approximately 10 percent of GDP, which was unacceptable (don't forget that at that time GDP was low). For closing the banks, Labus had Zoran's support because it could not be done without the republican government. I am saying this because even to this day it is said that domestic banks should have been kept, but that was absolutely impossible, that is, economically unattainable.

What kind of situation did you find when you took over the government??

It was much worse than we expected. Just one detail: when winter came, the European Union helped us, among other things, with a donation of electricity because otherwise the system would have collapsed.

Expectations were huge., and criticism started from the first moment.

photo: marija janković

I think that the Government failed to moderate expectations, and perhaps it was not even possible. Requests were made immediately. People simply did not understand that ten years of decay cannot be fixed quickly. In addition, they still lived in some type of Yugoslav illusion. In a sense, now there is no Milošević, now Tito's times will return, the West will support us, we will all have jobs, we will return to the factories... the only thing is that those factories, in the meantime, have collapsed.

What are the good effects of Đinđić's Government?

First, the financial system began to be fixed, insofar as the leaky holes were plugged. If you have a bucket that is perforated, and you plug the holes, the water will stay in that bucket and the level will start to rise. This was achieved by abolishing the smuggling of cigarettes, gasoline and other goods on the one hand and tax collection on the other. That government managed to stabilize the economy, and later to establish a normal VAT system, which was a huge undertaking.

Pensions started to be paid regularly, because the pension system was reformed in a good way. The most important move was made by Gordana Matković, who managed to reject the pressure of the World Bank and other financial institutions to introduce the second pillar in the pension system, the so-called private pension fund. She did it very well, it is perhaps one of the best things, because other Eastern European countries had big problems after the introduction of the private pension fund. She bravely resisted it. In addition, she also reformed the social sector, meaning social benefits and everything else that goes with it, such as homes for neglected children and the like. The poverty rate has decreased. Economic growth was significant, the standard of living was rising. And all of that was tangible.

And what happened to the powerful companies that are, essentially, was also destroyed?

In order to prevent the social problem, 75 large companies were given for restructuring. This means that people were not fired immediately, nor did privatization begin immediately. Some other things were privatized, but privatization, I must mention, essentially started after Djindjic's death. During that government, the privatization model was adopted, but the real privatization started later.

I must point out that Djindjic's government was not neoliberal, as people say. Privatization, for example, was not part of the neoliberal policy, but was part of the transition, as in other countries. This is often forgotten and then he is credited with being a neoliberal and having introduced privatization. However, that is not true. There is a logic of transition to a market economy that requires it.

The first privatization was "U.S. Steel"?

Yes, but through bankruptcy. It is the only large privatization from the list of 24 controversial privatizations that was done immediately. Some privatizations started during Milošević's time, such as "Cementara" in Beočin, have also been completed. The others have not been completed. Of course, privatization was not ideal, far from it. I would say that it was similar to privatizations in other countries. When you come out of chaos, the exit itself is usually chaotic. You cannot have all the levers to control the exit. Legal changes are needed, but they take a long time, and you don't have time, everything is in motion. At the same time, it cannot be said that the privatization model was accompanied by measures in other fields, which led to distorted results. Do not forget that the privatization took place during the time of Kostunica's government and that it did not react in the direction of correcting the deficiencies that appeared.

What about the political effects of the government?

First of all, we had an unsettled situation down in the south of Serbia. Nebojša Čović was in charge of it and he did an excellent job. With the help of the Americans and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Federal Government, headed by Goran Svilanović. We needed international support and we got it. We also had support from abroad for debt write-off. Then, we returned to international bodies, including the United Nations, where we had a frozen seat. So, in a very short period of time, things were done that are a prerequisite for a normal life in a normal country. Foreign aid came with a clear determination to move towards the European Union.

Were there any contacts with the Russians??

At one point - Putin had just come to power - Đinđić had a meeting with him and Koštunica in Belgrade. I happened to see Zoran the same day, after that meeting, and asked him how it looked. "The man is rational," he told me and added that Putin essentially said the following: "We as Russia are weak and cannot help you at all. We have other problems."

And Germany?

Zoran had good connections in Germany and tried to use them. Hence the great cooperation with Germany in the economic sense. He had a good relationship with Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, they had known each other before. He had the support of Germany, he was well-known there, he spoke for the German media and was a guest on German television. He saw our approach to Europe through cooperation with Germany as a large economic country with great political weight.

America? Djindjic also met with George Bush Jr?

It was in November 2001. It was a short conversation with Bush, in the White House, but it did not have the character of an official visit. It was a meeting like walk in, which could most adequately be translated as a passing encounter. Kostunica also met Bush in a similar way. The reason is of a protocol nature because they did not have an official invitation for a working meeting. They didn't have it because Serbia was still under the pressure of demands for cooperation with the Hague Tribunal. At the time of Kostunica's visit, Milosevic had not yet been extradited, and at the time of Djindjic, Karadzic, Mladic and numerous others were at large. Therefore, there was no invitation for an official working meeting.

After all, The Hague was hanging over Đinđić's Government all the time, which produced consequences on the internal level as well.

Relations with Koštunica were strained?

And Kostunica, as I said, had a meeting with Bush, where, among other things, cooperation with The Hague was discussed. Kostunica then said that he had to pass all this through the law, but the law stalled in the Federal Assembly. And then Đinđić took responsibility and extradited Milosevic to The Hague. However, relations with Koštunica were strained earlier. I think that basically, roughly speaking, it was a clash of modernization and tradition. Koštunica and Vuk Drašković had a common feature in the opposition. Their vision of Serbia was that the fall of the thin scum of communism from our minds leads to a return to the tradition of parliamentarism, democracy and the restoration of a domestic Serbia based on holiness. Let the readers assess how well that view corresponds with reality during the period of the fall of Milosevic and until today. Kostunica was a sovereignist, in the sense of De Gaulle's understanding of Europe. Whatever one thinks about it, in the European Union at that moment integration and supranational decision-making were in full swing. Zoran saw the European Union as a way to modernize Serbia in every sense, as well as to overcome the ethnic conflicts of the past in the territories of the former Yugoslavia. Finally, Đinđić and Koštunica were two different temperaments. They could, in fact, be a very good team: one accelerates, the other brakes. Much like Felipe Gonzalez and King Juan Carlos in Spain. There is no good speed without a good brake to prevent it from going off the road. But that didn't happen.

And the introduction of religious education in schools?

I had signed a petition against it and told Zoran that. He didn't say anything, he just smiled. I was against the introduction of religious education in schools, but not because I am against religious education in general, but because I thought that it would not be taught adequately in our conditions. I think that Zoran tried to make a compromise with a part of the conservative electorate and with the Church. He did it for practical reasons. I'm not sure he convinced too many people with that move. In addition, he promised the Church that he would complete the Temple of Saint Sava, he cared about proving that we as a nation are capable of completing a task that we have set ourselves.

What were the goals of Djindjic's government?

She took on a huge task, three tasks were set before the government: the reconstruction of the country after the bombing, the transition and the achievement of good governance, good governance. So, the achievement of correct rule. But that is very difficult to achieve in a short period of time, even if it took four years. But the Government had to bite into all three things at the same time. And that went very hard, it seemed chaotic to people, without enough control. In one sentence, the Government's goal was to build a modern European Serbia that is rapidly moving towards membership in the European Union.

Serbia remembers Djindjic through anniversaries and special occasions, but basically all of that turned into a kind of alibi. I already wrote that in the only text I wrote about him. We have all heard the sentence countless times that everything would have been different if Djindjic had stayed alive. But that is not true. It would be different, of course, but not in the sense in which people say it. He alone could not transform Serbia. I knew Djindjic since I was eighteen years old and I am quite sure that he himself would say that that sentence is wrong and out of place. How many times did he repeat: "If something bothers you, get organized, do something. Don't cry into a glass, don't whine, but do something, get moving, take action." People are prone to complaints and excuses, in order to provide themselves with an alibi for inaction. The sentence that says "it would have been different with him, and now everything is over" is simply defeatist. If you respect Zoran's work so much, do what he would have done - fight now, believe in yourself and don't stumble and give up.

Have you ever found him in a bad mood??

Once. We found each other, and he was overcome with despondency. It was during the "berets" rebellion.

When they got out of the car put?

No, right after that, when he had to go to their feet in the Tower. Simply, at that moment there was no organized force that could oppose them. He realized that nothing stood between him and them. He told me that Dule Mihajlović and the head of the Service, Goran Petrović, told him that they could not do anything. "It's better if I go to the Tower, than if they come here. Then it would be over," he said and went to the hole. The consequence of this was that he had to make concessions in the Security Service. During our meeting, he did not look like himself. He said he felt he was sentenced to death. I told him then not to talk like that, that we defeated Milosevic even though we knew that he would not step down regularly and peacefully. That it all ended without casualties even though we expected them, that he is now the prime minister. I continued in that tone, but he was quite resigned and said that he was resigned to it and was now even more determined to act with less compromise.

I'm sure that mood passed him, because he wasn't the type of person to stay in that mood for long. But it was a moment that often comes back to me after his murder.

How do you view the stories about the importance of services in these areas??

Honestly, my opinion on this is pretty lonely. Services existed, of course, but I think their influence is overestimated. The problem is that people believe in stories about all-powerful services, and in those stories anything and everything stops. And there was a brief connection between Đinđić and Koštunica, there was talk of some kind of eavesdropping, about completely unrealistic things, but they work great for public use. Basically, however, the services were hollow, but it was this hollowness that was the reason that Zoran had to agree to let a Legion man enter the Service after the "berets" rebellion. Second, let's not forget that the services have not been reformed, let's not forget that Rade Marković remained at large for a long time. And he was a stumbling block between Djindic and Kostunica. Djindjic wanted to be replaced immediately, but Koštunica opposed it. After all, that was Đinđić's first move when he became Prime Minister, replacing Rade Marković. I think, therefore, that the influence of services is overestimated, but in fact it is a question of reborn elements. People like to believe in unverified and unverifiable stories that are, most often, mere gossip. In other words, services are strong if people give up the filter of common sense and if they are ready to believe in the most fantastic stories and various conspiracy theories. We are not the only nation in the world where there are many of them. There are quite a few of them in all countries.

Do you think that the Government could have taken a different position towards the tabloids?, who very quickly started drawing a target on Djindjic's back? Could some order have been introduced there??

I think it would be very difficult. It is a long-term process. Some of those tabloids, however, were preparing the ground for his liquidation. What the tabloids published was a direct challenge to the Government. In those texts, the sovereignty of the Government itself was questioned, and the ground was prepared for murder. After all, we know that the Government was then preparing for a major clean-up operation against crime.

Zoran Živković's government was a continuation of Đinđić's government, almost in the same composition.

It lasted a short time.

Why did it last so short??

I think that Zoran Djindjic was ready to maintain the Government for the entire term in order to do some irreversible things and then lose the elections. In this sense, he is one of the few who put the state completely above his own or party interests. After all, this can be seen in the composition of the Government, in the way he juggled 18 balls in that Government, in the way he tried to push through as many reforms as possible. But even if he had remained alive, that government would have lost the elections. Don't forget that Kostunica was very popular. According to measurements, on October 5 he was equal to Tito in terms of popularity. He had huge capital which, of course, he used afterwards to win the election, but then that capital slowly melted away. On the other hand, Djindjic was not popular. All that influenced the development of events. There are people who believe that he would come back after the lost election, in another election cycle, but we will never know.