photo: Marko Rupena"The focus of the story about "Belgrade on the water" must be on why the government prepares city land with our money and gives it to their close friends, partners, so that, also with our money, they build buildings and make a profit from them. Through our work, we discovered scandalous, inadmissible things that the public must know about, which we will not go over and which must receive an epilogue in the form of responsibility"
The first major protest of the Ne da(vi)mo Belgrade initiative was when representatives of Serbia, the United Arab Emirates and Muhamed Alabar's company signed an agreement on joint investment in the "Belgrade on the Water" project (see "Vreme" no. 1269). Then the city authorities used trams to shelter a thousand people who "showed the duck" to Prime Minister Aleksandar Vučić, his ministers and friends from the Middle East. After that, about two thousand demonstrators were left behind by police cordons in Karađorđeva street while the first foundation stone for the same project was laid (see "Vreme" no. 1291).
About 5000 people came to the next protest of this initiative, and the occasion was the demolition of buildings in Hercegovačka street at night (see "Vreme" no. 1322). The last protest, held on May 25, was probably the most attended anti-government protest in the last 14 years. Estimates say - about 15.000 people, and the reason is the arrogance of the authorities and failure to respond to the case of Herzegovina.
The organizer of those protests is a group of young Belgraders who have been following, analyzing and criticizing activities at "Belgrade on the Water" for two years. Protests, cooperation with politicians, further activities of the initiative are the topics of "Vremena" conversation with Radomir Lazović, one of the activists of the initiative.
At the beginning of the conversation, Lazović says that the illegal demolition committed by masked thugs does not surprise him.
"WEATHER": Why?
RADOMIR LAZOVIĆ: From the beginning of the "Belgrade on the Water" project, we warned about the criminal character of this undertaking. You know, people are most affected by what happened in Herzegovina, the illegal demolition under masks and the death of guards, but everything said that this government does not spare anything.
At the beginning, they had obstacles in the form of several planning documents and laws, as well as the processes of expropriation and clearing the terrain of buildings and people. They removed the obstacles arrogantly, by force and simultaneously. The study on high-rise buildings was canceled, the General Plan of Belgrade was illegally changed, even though the previous one was still in the procedure, the Spatial Plan for the area of special purpose for "Belgrade on the Water" was adopted out of all sense, the Law on Planning and Construction was changed, and when they saw that according to existing laws they cannot expropriate property for the sake of commercial interests, they passed the scandalous lex specialis.
During that time, everything that was built in the area of Savamala was built illegally. Everything! And the reconstruction of "Geozavod", which was carried out with permits for fixing the facade, and the false "Savanova" stand, which received consent for the temporary occupation of public space, although it is clear that the object is of a permanent and commercial nature, and the promenade, which Minister Zorana Mihajlović publicly admitted that there is no required permit... Let's not talk about the masts and the billboard that advertises the project and for which there are solutions for removal. All that was done and nothing happened to anyone.
Now that they have removed the legal obstacles and ensured that they can use public funds to finance the construction of buildings that are later managed by people close to them, such as "Savanova", it is time to demolish the buildings that stood in their way. Herzegovina, therefore, was not an incident. It is their manner, it is their way and their policy.
It seems that Herzegovina is more than manners.
Exactly. The fact that the police did not come out that night to help the people who called for help is completely scandalous. It is obvious that this is a seriously organized action in which a large number of state authorities participated. The principals themselves began to come forward when the cover-up began. And they all joined in to hide the truth and divert the public's focus to something else. From the member of the city council, Nikola Nikodijević, who claimed that no one called the police, through the mayor, Sinisa Malog, who declared that he felt safe, and the guard who was tied up and mistreated that night died immediately afterwards, all the way to Prime Minister Vučić, who first justified the demolition , and calls for demolition during the day, and in the end admits that the truth about who demolished will be painful. Now you tell me, does anyone really expect us to believe in this nonsense or are they so sure that they rule the media and that they will get away with this?
Is that why you dealt with the media at the previous protest??
We have estimated that the moment is right to support brave journalists who, despite the pressures, do their work professionally and responsibly in their newsrooms. You see, the government simply has no answers to the questions, neither about the harmfulness of "Belgrade on the water", nor about the events in Herzegovina, nor about other events in society. It is enough for the media to ask questions and everything will be clear. However, it is silent about it. You have to be persistent, you have to insist on answers and you have to confront them with their actions.
Be careful, we have a prime minister who says that the project will bring 200.000 jobs, and then reduces that number to 20.000, and no one asks him how he came up with those numbers and why they are different. They talk all the time about 3,5 billion investments, and the contract says up to 150 million, not investments but loans. There are no guarantees, the land is given away, we have to arrange very expensive infrastructure at our own expense... When they are asked these questions, they answer with a story about progress and tricks. The focus of the story about "Belgrade on the water" must be on why the government prepares city land with our money and gives it to their close friends, partners, to build buildings with our money and make a profit from them, and not whether we love their mockup.
At the protests organized by the initiative, I feel some new energy.. Was the initiative itself changing from within??
The initiative has not changed much internally, although we are working on it. There are still twenty people in the core, however, we are all together in a new situation. A lot of people call us to get involved in what we do. People offer and send help in the form of design, translation, high-quality video works and photos, offer help with gluing posters, writing transparencies... Most of the things we perform with are the product of that personal and volunteer engagement of people who support us. The real challenge is to find a way to expand, to use the potential of all these people and to involve them more intensively in the work of the initiative.
How do you do it??
When we see that we need security guards, drummers, designers for propaganda material, that we need to put up posters around the city, to call for a protest, we simply post it on social networks and people come forward themselves. The same goes for donating money or professional help, and it works very well. Over time, those who come forward become part of the tight-knit team that deals with things on a daily basis.
The organization is expanding, but at the protests, we trot in production for the number of people who come. On the one hand, I think that's fine. We do not deal with this business professionally and we give everything we can and everything we have. Besides, a protest is not a festival. There are many problems and people want to talk about them. We try to be concise and clear in our speeches and messages, we don't always succeed, but I think people are understanding. We are not here to entertain people, but because through our work we have discovered scandalous, unacceptable things that the public must know about, that must receive an epilogue in the form of responsibility and which we will not go over.
Do you think that these technical shortcomings of the protest can demotivate people??
I don't believe it. People are dissatisfied and irritated by everything that is happening. I think they are ready for a much fiercer fight than the one we are fighting now, and I think the government greatly underestimates this force that has gathered on the street. We will radicalize the protests in the direction of thwarting the politicians' intention to act as if nothing is happening. They must give answers and bear responsibility for what happened in Herzegovina. It is probably the biggest affair of this government, although it is very difficult to say that after helicopters, floods and other unexplained and strange things...
How do you treat opposition politicians who come to your protests?, offer you their services or ask for your support?
The same as before. Now their pressure is greater and more visible because they appear at our protests. For us, they are all outgrown people with outgrown ideas. Those people are completely worn out, they have absolutely nothing to offer in defense of the public interest, and everyone took advantage of it. They do not deal with politics, they are clients of various economic interests. We must find a way to marginalize professional politicians, we must fight alone and create a city where people live with dignity, where profit and partnership agreements cannot come before people, where the vague interests of individuals close to the government cannot come before the public interest.
What will the protests look like in the future?
I'm sure it will be more massive. We have set some pace to gather for two weeks, so we will see. People accept it well and now there is no going back. That the protest and pressure make sense can be seen from the government's statements. They got confused because they don't know how to deal with citizens. They are used to the blackmailed opposition that they hold in their fist. They are afraid of us and they have reason to be.
Our goal is to involve as many people as possible, as many different groups as possible, and to use civil action to get them to resign, but also to determine the responsibilities for all malfeasance. Resignations are not enough. Those people must answer for what they did, because "Belgrade on the water" is not the only malpractice by the government, it may be the biggest, but it is far from the only one.
And what if there are no resignations??
In parallel with putting pressure on the government, we build relationships with people who support us and who come. I sincerely believe in those people. I believe in the number of those people. I believe in a healthy basis that binds us all in the desire to deal with our cities. At the previous protest there were people from Kraljevo, Niš, Novi Sad. People from Smederevo, Valjevo and other places come forward. It is also important for us to show that it is not only Belgrade that is at risk. There are also independent institutions led by Rodoljub Šabić and Saša Janković, there are independent journalists, individuals in other institutions who often approach us, tell us that we are right, help us and provide information, but anonymously, so as not to lose their jobs. These are blackmailed, but still brave people, who have great potential. The people who spoke in front of the cameras about what happened in Herzegovina that night were also brave, and they must be acknowledged. There is also a profession that criticizes the project through the Academy of Architecture. And of course, there are a huge number of other people who will not be silent.
These protests are also a way to show those in the state system, who know what is happening and who are against it, that they are not alone, to let them know that they can count on our support and some kind of protection from the public that follows us, if they do not keep silent and come out with some new evidence of malfeasance.
What will happen if a group of inserted people with or without balaclavas during one of the following protests, he took and broke several shop windows in the city?
It wouldn't surprise us if that actually happened. They are ready for anything. At the previous protest, several eggs flew at the RTS building, but the people standing next to them reacted and stopped them. This is a kind of call to fight together and take care of each other and common security. Whether we can resist the beatings they hire - I don't know. We have a fair relationship with the police, so we trust them to solve such problems.
Do you see a potential problem in the fact that supporters of ideologically and politically different groups come to the protests? Sanda Rašković Ivić and Saša Radulović and Libek and the communists are also at the protests...
These politicians don't interest me at all, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have a wide body of ideas in one place. The first thing that Vučić did after taking control of the media was to cancel the dialogue. If there is no dialogue, there is no democracy. We are completely closed in small separate worlds that don't mix, that hate each other... Therefore, we have no intention of dealing with ideological reconciliations, we know what we are for, but the idea of resistance to this kind of rule goes beyond all of us individually. Nevertheless, one of our tasks is to show that this suppression of democracy is not a feature of this or that government, but that it is inherent in this kind of system, based on narrow party-economic interests.
Will the initiative also follow the path followed by, for example, the Local Front from Kraljevo, who participated in the previous local elections and will be in the city assembly? Are you talking about that??
People often ask us why we don't run for office so that they have someone to vote for. But the fact that we would run for office and they vote for us is not enough. It's not enough to circle, like and show up at a protest. We must first find a way to involve people, not only in criticizing the current one, but also in creating a new policy that will bring about the principles I have talked about. Whether we go directly into politics will depend on whether we can guarantee that we will succeed in implementing it.
Protests are not the only thing we do. We have been researching and analyzing "Belgrade on the Water" for two years. We filed 3800 objections against the illegal changes to two key documents that enabled the construction of "Belgrade on the Water". More than a hundred people worked on it together. That's why people trust us. They trust us because we didn't lie to them and because we included them, asked them. There are also two issues of the newspaper that we published.
Therefore, a series of such formats of our action means that we have engaged and informed people who will later, when they have the opportunity to vote, know what they are voting about and what they are voting for and who, after all, will not be satisfied with the role of voter. So we don't need passive voters, who will vote for us only because others are disgusting to them. We won't be lesser evil. We want a different form of politics. People from other parts of Serbia with whom we are in contact have the same working principle. All together, this can grow into a general protest against this system.
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