Vladan Đokić, rector of the University of Belgrade, is a man with many obligations, some of which he could not even dream of when he took office. Let's say - that he will try to defend students from persecution, arrests and beatings or explain in Brussels what kind of pressure the Serbian academic community is under. Perhaps he could not even imagine that he would be called a "murderer" and "thief" by the regime's newspapers.
When talking about Đokić, the government and the opponents of the government agree on only one thing - in the assumption that he will be the holder of the student list when the elections are finally announced. In an interview with "Vreme", Đokić explicitly says for the first time that the students did ask him to be on the list and that he accepted the invitation. But the list is not quite finished yet, let alone official. These days, Đokić got a powerful argument in his hands - the University of Belgrade already received more freshmen in the first enrollment period than in previous years. It seems, however, that the "blockade students" and Đokić himself did not succeed in ruining the university, as suggested by the government.
"First, I would refer to the term 'blockaders', which the government and its media use to discredit students and target them," Djokić said at the beginning of the interview with "Vreme". "It is necessary to convey to your supporters that the students will destroy the University and the state, and the truth is the opposite - the students stand for the rule of law and institutions, that is, for the state. So the 'blockades' did not even destroy the registration deadline. For more than a year and a half, the pro-government media and representatives of the authorities have been deceiving citizens by claiming that students are leaving our faculties, that there will not be enough freshmen. One official talked about a 'great exodus', ministers are recommending parents not to enroll their children in state schools universities. It is an unreasonable campaign, they are disparaging their state university - the best, the oldest, the most famous in the region."
"WEATHER" Could it be that the student rebellion really attracts freshmen to Belgrade University??
VLADAN DJOKIĆ: Obviously, all untruths cause the government to further lose its legitimacy - the citizens do not believe them. On the other hand, trust in the University is growing because for the first time in eight years, we have an increased number of registered and enrolled candidates. In the first registration period, about 700 more candidates were registered than in the previous year. It is encouraging for the University. We have about 15.300 places, almost 11.700 have already been filled, and we still have two registration deadlines.
For the first year of undergraduate studies, we have about a hundred study programs, and all thirty places are filled. Ten more budget positions have been filled. There are also programs that are not so popular.
photo: lenka pavlović...
It's actually a huge gap. everyone would like to study psychology, architecture, economy, organizational sciences... One student applied to be a physics teacher.
It is a perennial problem. The university created a platform for a solution, which it sent to the Government two and a half years ago, but we have not received any response on how to jointly solve the problem.
We have several study programs where four candidates apply for one place each - psychology at the Faculty of Philosophy or speech therapy at the Faculty of Special Education and Rehabilitation. We traditionally have faculties that fill capacity in the first enrollment period - architecture, dentistry, medicine, electrical engineering, FON... And there are also new moments, for example construction has already filled all the places this year."
The least interested are professors and teachers, in mathematics, physics, biology, geography and chemistry. But the solution requires cooperation with the state, and there is none.
In that platform, you proposed that the studies be combined, let's say someone ends up as a math and physics teacher. Can't the University do something itself?, without the Government's response, which you will not expect?
The university must cooperate in decisions about the number of budget places or when it comes to which study programs will be favored. We are a state university, and the fact that the state considers us enemies is a different story.
On the other hand, Do you think we need this many journalists?, political scientist, lawyers and economists? Or that number of places is maintained only because it is popular and profitable for the colleges?
The state should have a policy on what occupations are needed and how to finance education. And we have the same quotas according to the criteria of ten years ago. A comprehensive reform of the entire educational process is needed, and the university should be the initiator of that, and not be imposed on us from the side with threats and statements that the university should be "pacified" or "destroyed".
There is a massive extermination of white-collar workers in the world through artificial intelligence. How the University deals with it?
Certain faculties, especially technical ones, have study programs in which artificial intelligence is already included. Artificial intelligence has advantages and disadvantages that should be noticed and made aware through education. Of course, it can be of great help to both students and professors, but it can also lead to abuse. Certain faculties have already set principles for this, but in the coming period it will be an even more important matter in education in our country and in the world.
Do students cheat a lot with the help of artificial intelligence?
I could talk about my discipline, architecture. There is also a situation where students can, with the help of artificial intelligence, design an entire neighborhood in no time, by inserting certain data. But designing is a long-term process in which progress can be seen through the stages, the way from the idea to the end. It is then clear whether the student comes up with the solution himself or whether he "produced" it on the basis of the database.
Nas, it seems, The epidemic of the faculty is waiting.. Minister Dejan Vuk Stanković and others are calling again "more competition" and foreign universities. Do you see that as a threat??
It is not a threat if foreign universities have the same conditions as ours. According to many criteria, the University of Belgrade is among the best two percent in the world and there is no fear that anyone will threaten it. Everyone who wants to work in Serbia is welcome, but you must know the order in terms of criteria, accreditations, number of teachers, space...
Are you afraid that foreign universities could be brought in according to loose criteria, making some outposts?
We stand against that. There was an attempt a year and a half ago, before the beginning of the protests, to amend the law to allow foreign universities to come without the accreditation process and so that it is not known who is teaching. There was even an idea for the state of Serbia to provide budget financing for such faculties. We opposed that and demanded that everyone meet the same conditions as our faculties. The fear, therefore, is not of foreign faculties, but of them not being privileged in a hurry and endangering our decades-long commitment.
There is another scheme.. An attempt is being made to establish a Faculty of Serbian Studies in Niš, so the Government is denying budget places to those majoring in Serbian studies, history and Russian, thus exerting pressure to separate those directions. Is there any threat to Belgrade? "Faculty of Serbian Studies"?
All kinds of exhibitions are possible with this power. What you mention is a classic example of a violation of university autonomy, because a new higher education institution is formed without the knowledge, opinion and approval of the academic community. Many professors in Niš objected, the entire academic community stood up. I hope that there will be no more such examples of imposing new faculties.
photo: lenka pavlović...
During the blockades of the faculties, we saw that private universities were able to effectively suppress even the hint of rebellion. What does that tell you??
Well, they have a dominant economic interest because they are financed exclusively by school fees. That, I think, was the basic motive for teaching to be realized somehow. Although many students from private universities were very active in the protest and still participate in the movement and decision-making.
We are talking about various types of encroachment on university autonomy. The entry of the police into the Rectorate at the end of March was explicit, when a student died at the Faculty of Philosophy. It was said that a preliminary investigation is also underway due to possible irregularities in the work of the Rectorate. Is there anything new about that??
We have absolutely no information. The Criminal Police Department then broke into the Rectorate, we were held hostage from ten in the morning until ten at night. It is specific that the case was entrusted to the Department for the fight against corruption, which shows that it is not related to the tragedy at the Faculty of Philosophy, as the Department for Blood Crimes would be in charge of it. So, in the Rectorate, they only verbally referred to the Filozofski case, but in fact they exerted pressure, looking for elements of corruption. All day they searched the premises, opened drawers and cupboards, looking for allegedly corrupt materials and of course they found nothing.
Even today, we do not know where that process is, if there is an investigation or if it is still a preliminary investigation. We have no information although we are very willing to cooperate wherever needed. Likewise, a year and a half ago, a criminal complaint was filed against me because I allegedly do not allow students to study. I have no information about that either, whether the report leads to an investigation or whether it was rejected. This is the principle of the government's work - it seeks the opportunity to silence and intimidate everyone who thinks differently and shows it publicly.
In addition to everything else, at the end of March, you became i in the regime media "locate". How do you deal with those dreaded name-calling??
Yes, it was a new moment. But the government is known to make a target of anyone who opposes it, be it a university professor, a farmer, a lawyer or an engineer. It is specific in the academic community due to the fact that the student movement has no leader, makes decisions and stands up equally, so it is easy to find someone else, among the professors who support the students, to declare that person the main culprit, even a "murderer", "Ustasha", "terrorist" and "thief", calling into question the person's integrity.
I will insist once again. how you personally feel about it?
Look, I know it's all lies. I am aware of what I do as rector and professor. I am doing the right thing - I stand for autonomy and support students who are fighting for a just society. I have no doubt that I should continue like this.
There are some of your professor colleagues who look at things differently, and some deans in Serbia. Evo, a professor became prime minister. How divided the teaching staff is?
The vast majority of the academic community supported the original student demands, which were not political, but focused on responsibility for the death of sixteen people. At our University, all deans, directors of institutes, all vice-chancellors and me as rector stood behind the student demands. Nothing has changed in that claim support.
Then, after seeing that the demands would not be met, the students diverted everything to the calling of parliamentary elections. This means political articulation, but the students actually want it to enable the resolution of the original demands. Most of the professors support that too, but some of them have different views on how to reach the goal.
The students are also advocating for a democratic society, in which everyone has the right to express their opinion - there is nothing controversial about that. I am sure that the vast majority of the academic community still stands by its students, but it is even more important that more and more citizens support students, because it is a question of the whole society, what kind of country do we want to live in and what are our priorities.
Many claim that only a narrow circle of students remained in the plenums and are preparing for elections, while others distanced themselves a little. What do you know about it??
I don't have information about how many students go to plenums, that's a student matter. This is a long process so it is logical that there are ups and downs. The structures of the student movement are changing, some have graduated, others have come, the way of making decisions and communication is also changing. However, it is still clear that they stand united and have a lot of support.
Professors who support students, including you, they visibly try not to give any advice to those students, at least not publicly. Are they asking you something behind closed doors??
There are no closed doors. As deans, vice-chancellors, and rectors, we talked with students several times, both in groups and individually, about various problems. So, there is communication between students and professors, just as there is communication between students and representatives of some other disciplines, from whom students receive advice, for example, on matters of justice, economics or other important areas.
You are thinking of creating an elective program of the student list, which is a kind of public secret?
The students are making the program, it is already finished to a certain extent, the rest is being worked on. It will be ready when the elections are called. There is no reason to worry about whether students will be ready when class comes.
You sat with Prime Minister Đuro Macuta and, as you said in the last interview for "Time", talked normally. Why can't students in rebellion sit down with the opposition and others to agree on election tactics?
That is a question for them. I think that the students started everything with the idea of going to the elections with their list. We should praise the fact that they immediately said that the government is not interested in them, that there will not be students on the list, but representatives whom they trust and who will be able to represent their views. Therefore, the list should include trustworthy people, most without any political experience, as the students wanted, but people the students can rely on.
Therefore, from the beginning, they emphasized the "anti-party" relationship, they do not even form a party, but a movement and a group of citizens for the elections. Students are still faced with the question of their relationship with some parties, and they will have an answer to that. As you know, they first asked for the opposition parties to support them, some accepted it, others did not. But everything is still speculation until we know if, when and which elections there will be. Until that is known, it is neither necessary nor desirable to go into the details of further action.
There is only one assumption about you that both the regime and the opposition bazaar agree on that you will be the holder of the student list. Will you??
I have long said that it would be my honor, pleasure and pride to be on the student list. I stand behind it even today. If the students think I can help, I will accept it. But I can't say that since the list hasn't been finalized yet. The students are right when they will not present the names of the candidates from the list before the elections have been announced. Why don't we already have lists of the ruling party or some opposition party? It's not just a question of whether the candidates from the student list will be the target of a dirty campaign, but it's simply a logical approach to the question - why present the names of the candidates when the elections can only be in a year?
We know that students have asked a lot of people who want to be on the student list. I guess that was the case with you too.
The students did ask me if I would like to be on the list and I said yes.
You travel to Brussels and talk to European officials. About what exactly??
First of all, about the state of the academic community and the pressures on it. I explain the situation to members of the academic community there, but also to some other institutions. It is very difficult for people from really democratic countries to understand that things like this are happening in our country and that state universities are being trampled like this. I am trying to alarm them, warn them about raids on institutions, beatings of students and professors, arrests and verdicts like in the case of student Andrej Tank a few days ago. I am talking about the media, administrative, legal and financial pressure on us, which my interlocutors there cannot always understand because it is happening in a country that is a candidate for the European Union. I speak there as the rector and in my own name, but never as a representative of someone else, say the student movement.
I hope I am not making a big deal when I say that you are a pro-European man. On the other hand, students write memoranda about Kosovo, some people who are strongly anti-Western are speaking at the gatherings. How do you see it??
Everyone has the right to an opinion. Students choose speakers depending on the message of the meeting, where it is held, who organizes it... That is the right of the students. The essence of that movement is to put political and other commitments aside, and to put the rule of law, freedom of the media, that prosecutors' offices and courts work freely, that elections are fair, that corruption and crime are prosecuted. Yes, in other words, we live in a society that has European values. It was not for nothing that the students cycled to Strasbourg and ran to Brussels. They went where they thought they would find understanding for what they stand for - the values that apply in the European Union. We have been candidates for membership for about fifteen years, and that process will go much faster, simpler and more honestly when the current government is no longer the government.
Therefore, don't be afraid "right turns" student movement?
No.
photo: lenka pavlović...
I wouldn't want to force you to be a political analyst, but do you believe the latest announcements by President Aleksandar Vučić that there will soon be parliamentary and then presidential elections?
He has repeatedly said various contradictory things, so it is not worth commenting on. Many are "fishing" for that propaganda. When the elections are announced, then we will be able to speak concretely. The only thing that is certain is that the student movement will be ready whenever there are elections. That will be the moment to find out many more things, and until then speculations should not be given importance.
Do you believe in the victory of the student list??
Victory is certain. Students are the future. No government can defeat its youth. Students have more and more support, and the government has less and less support. I am confident that the students will win.
If you become an MP or, who knows, Prime Minister, you must leave the position of rector according to the letter of the Statute. Will it be an easy decision??
We'll see if and when that moment comes. It can be before, and maybe after the end of my term as rector.
