Unraveling the planetary communication system

The award-winning work entitled "Calculating Empires" was realized by Vladan Joler in co-authorship with Kate Crawford, an American scientist in the field of ethics of technology and artificial intelligence. The work is a huge map of dimensions 24x3 meters, which can be viewed and read in countless ways and amazes with the amount of entered diagrams, drawings, data, numbers, symbols, references, illustrations and everything else - imaginable and unimaginable.

The conversation with Professor Joler is, to some extent, hijacked by standard media forms. That's why we start from the end, from an event that represents an incredible and exciting combination of circumstances for him. At least two worlds connected because, says Joler, "what I do - the world of maps and research - is usually separated from the local reality. Although the research with the 'Share' foundation is local and directly involved, this time the story is much more personal and all the more exciting. Now every dichotomy has disappeared. This is now complete madness. I have never felt such a connection with Novi Sad. I don't think even people in the rest of Serbia understand how difficult it is here. In Novi Sad, everything is more elevated for a few the ladder, from violence all the way to emotions. People have personally gone through all that trauma that is still going on."

"WEATHER" Yet, your works have always been political.

VLADAN JOLER: They are, but it could be called techno-politics. My research related to the political, economic, social results and consequences of a very specific technology. It turns out that even the way internet cables are laid is a form of politics.

However, it seems to me that no map can be correct...

Maps always come from a position of power. Maps have always been a part of military technology, and I try to play with their distinctive aesthetics. An important part of the approach is a kind of conceptual irony. For example, we make maps that are critiques of classifications, and maps themselves are classifications. But what we were doing in the early 2000s, through horse.org and with Kristian Lukić, it always had a touch of playing with some kind of military aesthetics that can be read from the position of NSK and "Laibach". I love the blackness of the maps and the fact that they seem to be precisely true, but actually play with the aesthetics of the scene and the preconception that if something looks like a map, then it must be true. However, when you come from the position of someone who draws those maps, then you realize that there are a lot of decisions that the cartographer or critical cartographer is responsible for. By setting the language of the map itself, what can be told through the map is affected. Not to mention that every point or line is a decision. It wasn't until I got rid of the illusion of neutrality that I realized that those maps were the kind of narrative I was telling. There's a whole spectrum of possibilities, and it doesn't really matter if they're pure poetry or a technical diagram. I find it wonderful that the space of the map is a non-linear narrative in which the viewer can move as they wish. It is a multidimensional space because there are different map depths, in which it is possible to move through the space of something very small to the space of something very large. For me, there can be an infinite number of dimensions. Other possibilities for expressing the same idea, like color or VR technology, are not important to me at all. The moment you master that game of dimensions in two-dimensional space, you can actually do whatever you want.

The map remained analog., is exhibited in the space, which certainly forces viewers to face her directly.

I agree. Although, hand on heart, the original of each map is a digital file, PDF (although this map is too big for PDF). However, it is a completely different feeling when it has its own materiality in space, when the viewer has to actively use his body when watching and reading. Due to its size, this map becomes a kind of architecture because it can shape the space, and in different ways. We laid it out as a continuous straight line, then we had a kind of tunnel, we also had a circular setup. The ability of the map depends on the setting itself. For example, a fantastic setting in the form of a long frieze practically makes it impossible to establish a connection with parts that are too far away. I haven't seen the installation in the Rijksmuseum, which is circular, but people say it's great because the viewer is equally distant from all parts, and the information game has different origins.

"Calculating Empires" has been exhibited in many places. She traveled to Milan., Paris, Barcelona, Tokyo... Of course, the journey is digital.

Ten years ago, we started to investigate the life of an internet package. A packet is an integral part of data that is created every time we type something online. Those packages, as well as postal packages, travel, for example, from here to San Francisco and back. However, this entire process is invisible, it is below human perception. We started with one nano-event that lasts less than a second and is almost at the level of immateriality, because it is actually the movement of light. But when we dived into that microlife, the unraveling of a planetary system of communication began, revealing many political moments. Questions arise such as: who owns a particular cable, where is the building through which the flashing light passes, who has access to it and who can collect the metadata? How do states regulate it? In fact, everything is contained in that one nanomoment - all those invisible economic and political power relations.

Gilles Deleuze should be remembered, which in the mid-nineties tells us to understand "small character set, a small block of characters that follows an unlimited straight line and marks a series of processes on it, completed parts... it's a completely different machine. Instead of an endogenous force that envelops everything, there is a decisive external opportunity, relationship with the outside world, which is expressed as an emotion rather than an idea, effort or work rather than imagination... " And now it seems as if Deleuze is describing exactly your maps.

Absolutely! This current map literally stems from that Foucaultian-Deleuzean school. The first part of the map represents a kind of media archeology that is also political, but to the observer who does not read those signs, lines and dashes it seems like a mere display, the second part of the map is a socio-political reflection of the various systems that now emerge from these technologies. The initial presentation of the classification system starts from the body, education, prison, barracks, that is, the army.

The previous map, "Anatomy of AI System", represents the moment when the new system opened. For years, we have been investigating communication systems, infrastructure, data centers, all that extended anatomy of a device in an almost forensic way. But a miracle happened on this map, the opening of a new dimension, namely the connection of nature with all that. When we talk about technology, we usually talk about the relationship between man and society, we rarely talk about the relationship between man, nature and society. When we opened this third dimension, then these previous two arranged themselves differently. It may seem that certain protocols or infrastructures are better than others because they protect privacy more reliably. However, what happens if the better technology consumes more electricity, which of course is associated with ore and combustion? Or what exactly means a large amount of hardware, which is required and which is built from elements coming from different parts of the world? Each of these elements has its own explicit policy. It became clear to us through the story of lithium. In any case, the three-dimensional map opened up a completely different perspective. Because we are no longer just talking about privacy, security, data collection and the economy, we are talking about supply chains, factories, the exploitation of nature and ecology. It's fascinating that that map still has an amazing life. It became a kind of drawing - a signifier of a theme. It has been exhibited in many places, but the most beautiful thing is that it is often used in educational processes and workshops that talk about the materiality of technology. On the other hand, it appeared in museums primarily as an excellent curatorial tool. It is usually placed at the beginning of the exhibition, so that the rest of the exhibition flows from it. For example, at MoMA, the curator installed the map as a fixed place for three years, while the other works were rotated. This means that it is possible to fit countless works and stories into that one map.

photo: fondazione prada cate crawford, ph patrick toomey neri

In other words, thus the rhizomatic map rule was developed - from curatorial practices to different readings.

That's right. But in connection with that, there is another work, which has a completely different audience - "New Extractivism", which consists of a video and a map. There, out of my naive but beautiful love for theory and philosophy, I did something else. Namely, the method of my research first starts from technical or detective research on the topic, and after that I start drawing diagrams. Once that is done, I need to explore what the theoretical or political meaning of that drawing is. While working on The New Extractivism, I began to seriously enjoy reading theory, from Foucault onwards. "New extractivism" is actually a tribute to my favorite theorists, a kind of collage of theories from which I have made a very personal system. The people who like that map are the people I like, because they can read my story better. Other maps have a much wider audience, as people with different backgrounds can find different things.

By the way, considering that hardly anyone knows me at all (laughs), few people know what I look like, often at exhibitions and events in museums I like to listen to what people say and what they draw from maps that are open enough for all kinds of interpretations. I enjoy it very much.

This is typical for us artists, namely, the moment when the work is finished and released into the public space is also the moment when that work begins to live a life of its own and when control over interpretations ceases. You learn to live with it through fine art. Unlike Kate, who likes to deal with installations and exhibitions, I have absolutely no interest in it. For me, the process is complete inside that folder. I don't want to control the rest and leave it to the museums. This allows for respite, as each map requires a huge amount of time. For example, I worked on this map for four years and I can't look at it anymore (laughs). There are two different modes: the creation mode where I have crazy obsessive energy and I can enjoy the fact that the map gets three lines or two points in one day with the whole world behind it. When the work is finished, I have to switch to another mode, which involves traveling, lecturing, explaining, and during that process I become a slave to the same topic that people expect. It works like a band: you make an album, then you go on tour, and then after 3-4 years you make another album. But I'm incredibly enjoying having one job over a two-year period. I won such a space at the moment when I decided to no longer work on projects with deadlines, sponsors, clients. However, now another problem appeared, which arose in parallel with the work on the maps. Namely, I completely lost the ability to think linearly, to present a linear, consistent story. I physically cannot make a PowerPoint presentation. I got in huge trouble because of it. I spoke at the Council of Europe without a presentation, because I could not make one. That's why I said to myself at the presentation of this award: "Come on, sit down, write something, because we don't know what will happen." Now we're all emotionally torn because of everything that's going on and I knew it wouldn't be good if I went out without a script ready. I barely managed to read what I had previously composed.

It might be a good idea for all of us to develop those rhizomatic neural connections. It would provide critical thinking.

Yes, it is a special way of thinking, especially when it is connected with the visual. I think that the experience of the art space makes it possible. When you paint a picture, you don't know what it will look like in the end; it is constantly changing. The artist is in constant communication with the painting, the only thing is that the material of my painting is not color but information, a package of knowledge or signs. Of course, there must be a system behind everything, because each map has its own language. What is exciting is the existence of some very precise points, for example a figure of a concrete book with all the data, then a diagram that is completely abstract, then an illustration with certain symbolism. Some people read the map through precise points, but I find readings that move across these quasi-spaces with different levels of abstraction more interesting. Taken together, you get a rollercoaster of different narratives, openness and closure... Who knows how people read it - welcome to the map space (laughs).

Does the concept of the non-human have anything to do with your maps?

I think technology or tools are very difficult to separate from use. When technology is thought through, we come to the point that every use is a matter of decision. For example, the sculpture, i.e. its space, will depend on the chisel you have. Or the space of social networks, the interface itself, the decision that boxing has a certain number of characters and the heart determines what can come from it. The goal of the game is to collect as many hearts as possible. Of course, that system was set up by someone, the system of extraction and exploitation, that is, the economic model of that competition. When Instagram only had squares, our students started working in exactly that format, which is completely unnatural (we've always worked on some golden ratio, A4 format and the like). So it's always a human decision. On the "Knowing Machines" project, we tried to explore data sets from which artificial intelligence learns. On that line we found a sea of ​​decisions that are completely invisible on the surface. Earlier, the space of the Internet was much freer, in terms of creation website page. "Myspace", for example, had many options, but then came the standardization that allows only one type of content to be placed in one space. Standardization came about because it is much easier to perform extraction that way. In other words, if behavior is standardized, it is much easier to enforce control.

Now it's completely clear why you won an award at the Biennale of Architecture. We are talking exclusively about spaces, constructions and structures. Perhaps we could talk about the space of the political. You dedicated the award to students and colleagues, called for a boycott.

Most of the discussions and topics at the Biennale were related to the politics and ethics of using nature, energy, and materials. From the perspective of the suffering and frustration of Novi Sad, it is clear that architecture has a different meaning and a different kind of ethics in focus - a network of subcontractors and corruption. It was absolutely not the theme, except for the segment on the neo-colonial relationship to materials, as is the case in the British Pavilion. But I had no other option but to try to say something about Novi Sad. Our inability to see below the surface of interfaces or appearances is not only at the level of technology. Life in European cities or in general in Western civilization is completely separate from understanding the depth of the process. The complexity of a single process can range from a miner in the Congo to a waste collector. I was lucky enough to teach at NID in Andabad, India, and for some time there I researched such phenomena and processes. There are huge electronic equipment dumps around which entire villages are formed. I saw a father unable to get up due to tremors from the toxic fumes, while the children continue to break parts of motherboards, burn them and classify them. I saw a beach called Alang beach, where ocean liners come and die. Workers who don't even have shoes drag the ships into the mud and within three months they are transformed into their constituent parts. The houses in the area are made from parts of those ships. These processes are not visible in the West. We came to "Calculating Empires" precisely through the monitoring of such materialities, in terms of processes and ways in which things arise and disappear. There is a fantastic story about the creation of the first underwater cables from the second half of the 19th century. Behind this wonder of the world there is a story about the composition of the cables. Namely, copper is needed, but also a certain amount of material from a plant called gutta-percha, which served as an insulator. In Southeast Asia, there was a complete destruction of the ecosystem due to the extraction of this plant. Of course, it's also interesting where those cables go. They start from Britain and connect the colonies so that the empire can gather information efficiently. The political cartographies of cables are still important today. "Calculating Empires" stems from such stories and spans the period from 1500 to the present day.

In the end, I have to take you home. Therefore, What should we do??

Well, I don't know, we have a court blockade tomorrow... The situation is actually difficult and I don't know if people outside the University feel the depth of the struggle that is happening right now. We are recognized as the enemy and the angles of attack that occur are incredible. We have a series of different problems and attacks on the entire institution, on students, deans, professors. We have economic, institutional, legal attacks, attacks on individuals, attacks through the media. For the past six months, we've been living through new dramas every week. Every meeting is a decisive meeting, online or in college. But I don't think there's anyone who knows how this will end right now. I tried to see what is happening to us in the context of this map. There is a column called "Time" on the map, both locally and globally. We break it down into segments to look at the control system. At the top of that column, we singled out acceleration and time segmentation. I am convinced that this is what is happening to us right now, together with the crisis of values ​​that can be seen in many places, but also with the dominance of technical sciences in relation to the humanities.

However, I am still optimistic… I don't think this kind of energy, love and release can withdraw and disappear. When a man feels freedom, it's hard to put him back in the box.